Hot Composting
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Screaming Eagle
Posted: May-16-2004 at 10:28am
Compost Happens….
I used to be a cold composter. I would just throw garden debris into a pile and let it rot over time. It worked well enough because I was not the avid gardener I am now and because I didn’t know it could be done differently. But then I read Steve Solomon’s book, Organic Gardener’s Composting. He wrote about hot composting’s ability to achieve a superior product quickly with fewer weed seeds and pathogens surviving. I liked those outcomes! But because he seemed so knowledgeable and quite scientific, I inaccurately concluded that it would require more time and effort than I was willing to give. After all, what remaining time I have after working full time and taking care of my two children, I want to spend tending my garden, not my compost pile.
The turning point came when I attended a composting demonstration. I was shown, step by step, how to build a batch of hot compost. It looked easy enough. I went home, faithfully mixed my ingredients according to the recipe they provided, bought a compost thermometer (which added to the excitement!) and waited. Within a few days I inserted the thermometer and – low and behold—it had heated up! In that moment, I became a hot composter.
How much faster is hot composting? My first successful batch, built in the middle of winter, took only 3 months! My spring piles are taking even less time. Boy, wait until the heat of summer!
If you garden, you have material to turn into rich compost – a gardener’s best friend. So, why should you bother with hot composting if your current method works fine? If quickly turning large quantities of garden debris into quality compost in a small space appeals to you, then go for it!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So are you ready to try hot composting? Here’s how.
First, the recipe:
Use the right mix of browns and greens (about equal by volume).
The more you chop things up, the better it works.
Toss the ingredients like a salad, which works better than layering like lasagna.
Water the pile as you build it—it should be as wet as a wrung-out sponge.
Make a batch at a time, about a cubic yard.
The more you turn your pile, incorporate air and add water, the better it works.
To avoid rats and other scavengers, keep your kitchen waste out of the compost pile (save this for your worm bin).
Keep diseased plant material, weed seeds, perennial weed roots (like dandelion), morning glory and ivy out of the compost pile.
It is best, initially, to follow the above recipe and turn out several successful batches before you bend the rules and improvise. For instance, you may successfully turn kitchen scraps into compost if you bury them in the center of your pile and build your compost so that it heats up. The scraps will rot quickly and will be less likely to attract rats when you turn your compost.
Not all plant material works equally well, some things decompose more quickly. There are many great books (including Steve Solomon’s) that provide detail on the ingredients and tips to use them well. Here are my favorite compost building tips:
Mow deciduous leaves with your lawn mower with the bag attached to vacuum them up. The leaves will be nicely chopped up—great for worm bin bedding, too. If you are short of greens, pick up free used coffee grounds at a coffee shop (yes, I know they are brown, but because they are high in nitrogen, they count as a green.) Browns are much easier to stockpile until needed than greens. Plus, greens eventually turn into browns. Save your fall leaves to add to the abundant supply of greens in spring and summer. Get a machete or big butcher knife and an old chopping block or board to chop up stalks, etc. Clippers work, too, but they take longer and aren’t nearly as fun!
Finally, to container or not to container. I found plastic bins to be too small to create hot compost; they made turning the pile a challenge, too. Open piles have given me excellent results, plus they were very easy to turn. I think I’ll try the three-bin system since it is neater, although I’m not sure they’ll be as easy to turn.
Please share what your hot composting tips and resources!
Lisa A
Posted: May-16-2004 at 11:25am
Great tips, Theresa! I am definitely a cold composter I want to change my ways. I've seen the light! I feel more confident in this new endeavor now.
In the recipe, one step is "Make a batch at a time, about a cubic yard." Is this a cubic yard of raw material? That's my assumption because it would seem dificult to estimate a finished cubic yard. A cubic yard is 3 x 3 x 3, right? High school math was a long time ago.
How much does your pile reduce?
Thanks, again!
tommyb
Posted: May-16-2004 at 11:30am
Hot Compost! That's something I can really sink my teeth into. And it will allow me to expose several of my favorite gardening semi-secrets.
I will try to be short winded.
Number One: Cheat. Find a source of fresh manure. Cows are absolutely the best hot composters, since they have to compost their feed, it's called chewing their cud. Hot manure will burn plants because the nitrogen is too hot, both chemically and by temperature. Try it, you'll get great heat in your pile. Chicken manure is even better. I would guess fresh manure would be a brown, but since it is a source of nitrogen maybe it's a green.
Number two: Tools. What Theresa described as fast, in three months, can be accomplished in as little as three weeks if you are young and vigorous by turning and thus aerating every couple of days. A Google search will probably find a book about this method. And to do it you need tools that will turn a lot of stuff. My second favorite tool is an ensillage fork. The really good ones, have small balls on the tips to avoid spearing the material. Imagine a regulation pitch fork with fifteen prongs. The type typically around in retail stores are welded wire. A good analogy is plastic flowers versus what you grow. If you're gowing to use a pitch fork, use a strong one or it will break, think forged rather than welded. And think antique stores and thrift shops. Handles are every where, think D Type and longer is better.
Number Three: Concrete Reinforcing Wire. The six by six inch mesh type you get at Home Depot and other places. The flat sheet is seven feet by four feet, the rolls are five feet by fifty feet.Think about a cheap bolt cutter. Cut a chunk about nine feet long off the roll, or use two flat sheets, set it on edge and chose your favorite type of clip to hold the wire on edge in a circle. Voila, compost corral. I like to line mine with 1/2 inch mesh hardware cloth, sewn on with baling wire, to keep most of the fine material in the pile. Fill it up and when you are ready to stir, open it up and move it aside. This stuff makes tomato cages, trellises, and all kinds of structures; my newest hoop house used reinforcing wire for the internal support.
I totally lost patience with my pile this spring and made a platform next to mine and cultivated it with my
Number Four: Mantis tiller. This approach will stir your pile very well, but I suspect it helps if you are six feet two and have, ahem, some weight to stabilize the activity. Any front tine tiller will stir a pile quite well.
Number Five: A Chipper Shredder. Loud. Noisy. Scarey. Mine eats pine cones. Another yard sale thing.
A note: really fast compost will not look like the slow stuff. But the microbiological activity, and benefits to your plants, mirror the aged stuff.
Oh, and there will be a wee perfume about the pile...
Lisa A
Posted: May-16-2004 at 10:05pm
Well, that leaves me out. I'd need a pair of those drywaller stilt shoes! Can you imagine the image of me with stilts, welding a tiller in a compost pile. The neighbors already think me slightly mad as it is! LOL
Great info, Tom. Thanks for sharing.
I can't wait to get started! I'm going to enlist hubby's help removing my current black plastic compost bins and building a system for hot compost. Poor guy, he doesn't need another project. btw, he may not be so fond of you all for being the instigators.
Screaming Eagle
Posted: May-17-2004 at 9:14am
Yes it's a cubic yard of raw materials. And I should have said at least a cubic yard. You can go bigger but you start reaching a point where there isn't oxegen reaching the center of the pile unless you find a way to get it there.
I think it reduces to about 1/4 or so. It's hard to tell because sometimes I combine piles, when I screen it I throw some of it back in to finish composting, etc.
Thanks TommyB for the additional info and methods. It helps people to know there are many ways to approach something and get the same or similar results. Everyone differs on their abilities (strength and time) and has access to different raw materials or is willing and able to obtain different materials.
I encourage folks to try different things to discover what works best for them and what they can sustain.
gal220
Posted: May-17-2004 at 9:26am
A lot of good info on hot composting! I have a question, though. It's just my husband and me here so we don't generage a whole lot of compost material. But what I do is keep a blender on the counter and throw fruit & veggie waste, egg shells and espresso grounds in it, add water and puree. Then I pour it in the garden beds & around the rhodies & azaleas about every couple of days.
Here's my question....Is it better to let waste decompose slowly? Is that what makes the result beneficial? I feel kind of like I'm usurping Nature's job by whipping everything up and just pouring it out there. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!
tommyb
Posted: May-17-2004 at 9:40am
gal220, IMHO anyway to get organic matter into the garden is OK. As long as, of course, moderation is applied and the smoke has cleared. Most organic additives take some time to breakdown and shouldn't harm your plantings. But I'm a bit of a gambler, and an American with no patience!
Screaming Eagle (is there a .wav file for you??) you are completely correct about hows and whats for each of us. I am perhaps a bit energetic about manure-type stuff and tools.
I did a quick Google about fast compost and found
http://www.juniperandsage.com/garden/chap2.htm
which has pictures and stuff about the two week method.
No more coffee for me,
Tom
gal220
Posted: May-17-2004 at 10:29am
Tom, You are a dear. I checked out the website and wow! A lot to learn there! Thank you, Jane
DebbieTT
Posted: May-17-2004 at 12:54pm
Ya know, I used to be a hot composting chick. Now I am just an ol' cold composter. But I must admit my piles were always a lot larger so no wonder I didn't want to turn them. A 3x3x3 bit wouldn't hurt me. So maybe it is time to think about this again.
I am fortunate that we have a real good chipper and brown material can be saved until the lawn gets mowed.
Maybe I might become a hot composting chick again. Good inspiration Theresa.
Lisa A
Posted: May-18-2004 at 8:16am
I have one of those inquiring minds, y'know, so I have more questions . . .
What temperature do you want the compost pile to reach? Is there a range that is good? I seem to recall that you don't want it to get too hot but I don't recall what temp was too hot. If it gets too hot, you turn the pile, right?
What do you do if the pile won't heat up enough?
How often do you turn the pile? Is it a schedule or based on the temp?
Oh, I had another but it skittered to an out-of-reach corner of my brain . . .
JeanneK
Posted: May-18-2004 at 10:07am
You guys are inspiring me to go turn the piles tonight! I think we are safe that there won't be any more lightning in Portland tonight. Metal tools, lightning, not a good combo.
To get them to heat up you turn them more often, Lisa. If you have the right balance of green and brown and you turn them every other week during the growing season, depending on the weather, they should be hot enough. Of course, it wouldn't hurt to check if you have a temperature gauge. Then maybe you wouldn't have to turn as often. From Tom's link above, the piles need to get to 150 f.
I have never noticed rats due to the kitchen scraps. And it is so nice to use them, so they don't go into the garbage. I don't have a worm bin. I find they compost faster than anything else.
leslie
Posted: May-18-2004 at 10:59am
I don't know exactly want you would call my composting style but it works well and fairly fast.I like to compost every thing I possible can. I use all vegetable scrapes, coffee grounds, tea bags (minus string and staple) egg cartons, TP rolls, paper towel rolls, napkins, paper towels, shredded newspaper, grass, xmas tree neddles, shrubs and flowers. Weeds I put in our gardening recycle bin for the garbage service to make compost. I start everything in an enclosed bin that rotates. When it is decomposed enough so it won't attract varmints, it is put in a pile on the ground and I start all over with a new bin. The only problem is once it goes in the pile on the ground, I have a hard time getting my husband to keep it turned. It does amaze me so much stuff yields so little compost and yet takes up so much room in the landfill.
EmilyK
Posted: May-18-2004 at 2:03pm
Hi All,
Thanks for the good info. I tried to hot compost last year, but overwhelmed the pile with small twigs and stuff--it wasn't quite a brush pile, but it didn't compost either. It got hot in the beginning, before the pile got overwhelmed.
Anyway, I'm trying again this year by sorting out all the big stuff and mixing the half-composted pile with more grass clippings and other greens and letting it get going again.
But, my question--does anyone have good luck composting cedar/fir needles and cones? These elements account for a lot of what goes in (for browns, at least) and don't seem to break down at all well. I know that the needles are water repellant, and I do have to struggle to keep the pile moist--but I keep remaking the pile with sufficient greens and the greens are getting eaten up but the cedar/fir needles are much as they were when they went in. The pile is in it's third generation now and the heat and the greens are gone but the browns remain nearly unchanged. What gives? Maybe I'm just too picky about the stringy stuff and need to sift the compost? But, then again, there's an awefull lot of stringy stuff and whole needles remaining.
Em
tommyb
Posted: May-18-2004 at 2:24pm
I am tommyb and I have approved this message: The reason yard debries takes up so much room in the land fill is that each item has to fill out and attach a form.
The memory files have sent up a factoid from the old Organic Gardening movement of the Sixties (I know only I can remember this stuff): there were, maybe are, substances that can be added to a compost pile to stimulate heating. I found some at a surplus store called Thatch Destroyer or something, which was high test nitrogen. When I worked in the fruit industry in Southern Oregon the fruit and ricehull byproduct was used to make silage for cattle ranchers and they "salted" the mix with brown sugar (?) to start the cooking process. Kind of a yeast/sugar thing.
A concern has been raised as to how to get enough material to compost. In one form or another we all import material for our gardens. Again, from the organic movement: if you feed the soil with compost or similar products, your expense for chemical fertilizer eventually disappears. So, hot or cold process, the cost to import food/fertilizer to your garden can either be fast food (chemical) or complex carbohydrates (organic) in the form of browns and greens. Usually the organic forms are cheaper, more complex and, over the long term, healthier.
Beans sprouts and tofu on a bed of kale, with hops tea, will now be served on the deck.
Tom
Wanda
Posted: May-19-2004 at 9:24am
It sounds like you've already had a bottle or two of that Hops Tea!
Screaming Eagle
Posted: May-19-2004 at 9:29am
I've heard conflicting advice on how hot it should be. The hotter it is (up in the 140-160) it'll go really fast and destroy pathogens and weeds, but it also destroys some of the good guys. I've heard some experts express that a slower, cooler hot pile will maintain more biology that benefit the soil. I think there are pros and cons either way. I've only been able to get my piles to about 130 so I'm going with that. If your pile is getting too hot, you can turn it and that will temporarily cool it in the short term but you're adding oxygen in the process and probably making it possible for it to get even hotter. A longer fix is to add carbon so the nitrogen ratio isn't as high.
If it isn't heating up enough, you probably need more nitrogen or it's not moist enough or not enough oxygen. Turn it, make sure it's moist, and sources with a high nitrogen content (like grass clippings or coffee grounds)
How often? Ideally when the pile starts to cool down. OR, when you have time, or every two weeks--whatever works for you!
Screaming Eagle
Posted: May-19-2004 at 9:32am
Emily, I haven't had any luck with those materials because they just won't break down in any reasonable lenght of time. I think if one had a shredder/chopper, the boughs could be added more successfully. Since I don't have one, I've just been sending sticks and fir boughs, and other tough evergreen material out with the yard waste to let the professionals compost those with their more powerful systems. I've been using the fir cones to mulch pots, or add to the bottom of really big or deep pots instead of packing peanuts (had really bad experiences with those)
If you did start screening, you'd have a more usable product and could just keep throughing the uncomposted stuff back in for another go. OR, don't put the tough stuff in if you don't want to screen. Whatever works best for you.
suektwo
Posted: May-19-2004 at 7:48pm
So, what does a gardener/composter-wanna-be do when there is no brown matter around? The only trees we have are the ones we planted last fall and this spring, so no leaves yet. My compost pile is made up of almost exclusively green stuff and I know it will be a decade before it composts at this rate. Imagine how big it will be by then...
EmilyK
Posted: May-19-2004 at 9:17pm
Aaarrgh! I hate getting bad news. As we don't have a truck, and our only garbage collection goes right to the dump, composting is the only option for a lot of tree debris. Unfortunately, with 35+ big cedars and firs, I can accumulate about 15 yards a season (probably more). Oh well, we've burned it in the past and it looks as if we might have to keep doing that. Unfortunately, other sources of browns are few and far between. As I said before.....aaarrrgghh.
JeanneK
Posted: May-20-2004 at 8:26am
Looks like you need a chipper, Emily! 35+ trees is a lot of trees but I bet it is really beautiful!
Susan, you can also use dead plant material, pine needles, sawdust, barnyard litter along with leaves for the brown stuff. Do any of your neighbors have any excess leaves or pine needles or is there a source nearby for straw and hay from barnyards?
Good luck!
Lisa A
Posted: May-20-2004 at 8:50am
My problem has always been too much green compost like Susan's. I was told that newspaper can be used for browns (and I'm pretty sure it was by someone I consider a reliable source). The Oregonian is printed with soy ink so it's safe in the garden (not the glossy sections). Newspaper can be used in worm bins, too. So, when browns are in short supply, is shredded newspaper a good substitute? I've always got plenty of this. It would be nice if this would solve my problem for balancing my compost.
Screaming Eagle
Posted: May-20-2004 at 9:26am
Emily, I agree with Jeanne, you need a chipper/shredder! chip it up for paths, chip it up for mulch, save out some for the compost. What about becomeing a twig furniture artist?
Lisa, I believe newspaper would work fine. I've seen it listed in several sources as a good "brown" or high carbon material. I haven't personally used it but I do put it in my worm bin if I'm out of chopped leaves. It seems slower to break down than the leaves but I can't be sure. It's worth a try especially since its free and accessable for you! Plus what a great recycleing opportunity! If you do use it, let me know how it works.
Wanda
Posted: May-20-2004 at 9:27am
Susan - if all you are composting is grass, it will break down fairly fast if it's turned regularly. The greens of the grass become brown on top. Then you rotate it around. The problem is the wee perfume Tommy spoke of - if it's just lawn it will be a lot more than just wee. Also, grass will mat down fairly quickly if not turned a lot. Anyway, keep it on the dry-ish side and keep turning it. And when you get it fairly uniform and dry throughout, start another pile for the fresh stuff and then you can let the old pile cook down. Once all the grass has turned yellow you can add water to the pile to bring up the temperature. If your grass is mixed with other greens/browns from the garden, it will turn easier and not mat down as badly. Good luck!
And Emily - I feel your pain! 15 yards is an incredible amount! You need to find a blueberry grower who could use this stuff as mulch! I bet those Cedar "leaves" really burn fast. And there are so many sticks from Cedars - I'm always amazed at how messy they are (and how beautiful they are) Do you know someone who could use the "leaves" for path material? I would think they would make wonderful cushiony paths through a foresty area. Good luck to you too!
-Wanda
suektwo
Posted: May-20-2004 at 6:10pm
Wanda, most of what's in the compost bin is misc. green stuff. The hubby piled grass in there, we have about 15,000 sq. ft. of lawn so there's lots of it. But it got very smell very fast, so I took it out and spread it around on the ground to dry out. And I gave him instructions to do that in the future with new clippings. (When is he going to put the shredding blade back on that lawn mower and leave the clippings where they fall?!) So, now I'm thinking I can just use this now brown dried-out grass as my "brown" material for the compost? I feel like this is too easy...
Hey, this brings up another question. Some of that grass grows over our septic drain area. Is this a problem for composting?
Wanda
Posted: May-20-2004 at 7:21pm
It is my understanding that once grass is dried out, it acts like a brown in the compost pile. I could be wrong. Screaming Eagle - are you out there? It will still have a dendency to mat so mixing it with other stuff will help. And it will smell even while it's drying out.
Are you worried about using the grass clippings that came from the grass over the drain field in your compost pile? It should be fine. I wouldn't grow veggies that I would eat without cooking on a drain field but grass should not be a problem. And to compost that grass would surely kill any wierd stuff in the grass. Or are you asking if you can use the mulching mower on the drain field and compost the grass on top of it? I would also think this would be ok as long as it wasn't real tall grass and you ended up with a mown hayfield which could keep air from getting to your drain field. Good questions. It's important to think about what you are growing in and around a drain field.
And speaking of paper, we always put our shredded bills and personal stuff from the shredder in the compost pile. We don't generate a lot of it but it seems to break down fairly quickly. Of couse, not all the inks are organic but it's a small amount and I don't sweat it. But those windows in the envelopes never decompose so don't shred them!
I'm sure enjoying this topic of the week! -Wanda
suektwo
Posted: May-20-2004 at 7:48pm
Wanda wrote:
Are you worried about using the grass clippings that came from the grass over the drain field in your compost pile? It should be fine.
Thanks! That's what I was worried about.
Screaming Eagle
Posted: May-21-2004 at 3:07pm
Wanda wrote:
It is my understanding that once grass is dried out, it acts like a brown in the compost pile. I could be wrong. Screaming Eagle - are you out there? It will still have a dendency to mat so mixing it with other stuff will help. And it will smell even while it's drying out.
Here I am! Yes, I believe it would be a brown once it is dried out and turned brown. The ratio has shifted (where did the nitrogen go, she asks?) I'll look it up in my references when I get home to give you a more complete answer. The pieces are small and would mat like Wanda says so keeping it oxygenated so the good bacteria go to work (instead of the bad, smelly anarobic bacteria) would be tough. Having a variety of sizes and shapes in your materials, really helps maintain those airspaces--alot like your soil!
Sydnie
Posted: May-25-2004 at 10:54am
Great Subject! I have always had cold compost bins. More faster would be great! I'm taking notes!
tommyb
Posted: May-25-2004 at 11:37am
I must have accidentally ingested some nutrition this morning, my memory is tossing up another tidbit to digest on this topic. Sorry if it came from the pun factory!
See any yard services in your neighborhood? If chemical fertilizers are not an issue, these folks might spare a truck load if you ask them. When last this was a problem for me, I asked the local school district about the pile at their maintenance yard. I filled my pick up four or five times with their "waste".
Tom
DebbieTT
Posted: May-25-2004 at 11:42am
Tree cutting, bush trimming serivces and county road crews who grind up all their tree trimmings may dump their chews off at your property if you ask them to. That is a wonderful source of brown material.
I am thinking about buying a yard of shavings to put by the compost pile. Everytime hubby mows I can throw some brown material over the green material he throws in.
Sydnie
Posted: May-25-2004 at 2:23pm
Lisa I use tons of shredded newspaper and typing paper.
Seems to work great! Shredders are great! I keep one at my computer desk.
Any one else have these sort of problems with branch clippings????????
I had gotten 6 loads of chipped trees from the road crew. The chips were a big pain. They drew tons of termites, not to mention several weird types of fungus- and now I am sorry. I had gotten them for walkways. I used mild garden bug killer on the walkways I had done, but I was NOT a happy camper about doing so. This year I smothered them with straw. (no termites so far.) The piles are getting dumped down in the woods. Eventually I'm going with pea gravel or something not bug freindly. We are replacing the siding on one end of the house this summer and probably all of it eventually. Yes, termites. Termites and then a woodpecker who allerted us to the "problem". Did you know they can cut a perfect circle about 4 inches around in the wood siding of your house! Did you know they want the best, softest spot. She must of tried 50 spots before she found one that was just right. We certainly feel bird freindly here. I thought the neighbor's dog was dragging insulation from somewhere into our yard. That would of been better!
onabluff
Posted: May-26-2004 at 11:14am
Here's a question about preppping the materials. I don't have the room or expertise for a chipper/shredder, but the chopping block/meat cleaver routine is hard on the joints. Has anyone had success with any other methods of shredding up materials liks stalks and grasses? I tried running over them with the lawnmower but had zero success with that. Thanks.
tommyb
Posted: May-26-2004 at 2:19pm
A real cheap source for shavings/dust would be some guy like me that builds furniture as a "hobby/addiction". I usually have a couple of the big rubbermaid garbage cans looking for a home. A more visable source, which should also be inexpensive, is a molding company or lumber mill---if there are any left in your area. Be careful to avoid the standard cabinet shop as most of them use man-made products like MDF (medium density fiberboard) which are 50/60% glue and formayl, formal,er, that stinky stuff frogs come in. If you do have to pay for shavings ask where they come from.
My chipper/shedder is the small kind that looks like a lawnmower with a wierd grass catcher and a fat antenna. It won't do big limbs, it takes a big of strength to start it, it sounds like a mower, and fits in the same space as a lawn mower. As long as you respect it and don't expect it to do more than it can, (sorry, can't stop myself) like the LOYL, it'll do fine for small scale, home type use. I found mine for $40 at a yard sale.
Lucky Tom
Sydnie
Posted: May-27-2004 at 4:21pm
questions: So if you do hot mulch and use grass it doesn't matter if you have grass seed nor dandelion seeds because it kills them by breaking down fast? I didn't think I could use it in my cold mulch bin. Because of all the weed and grass seed. Does it matter if you use it in your cold frames if you keep turning them? I was always nervous about using grass and ending up with grass and dandelions in my beds- get enough of that to begin with! LOL.
The blender idea made me think about my winter mulch buckets. In the winter I keep buckets with super dooper lids that seal well to hold kitchen scraps in. Sealed these break down really fast. (and get stinky) I usually put them out on the porch 'til theres a break in the weather and then pour, yes- turns to liquid, them into the mulch bin. What if you took and made a mini hot mulch pile inside 3/4 full. Rolled it once in a while. Would that work? Do they need to have to have air? I thought if that would work it would be great for someone with a sm. yard? I'm going to try that just for winter! Buckets of dirt already for spring might be lovely! Rather than buckets of ewwwww to hold my nose and pour out. Anyone ever tried any thing like this?? LOL.
Since no one else seems to have had bad experiences with termites, I'm thinking it probably was that we had cruddy, cruddy siding to begin with!!! Look out woody woodpeckers! This siding is cement of somesort. OW! LOL. At least we have zero, zilch no termites this year. No where. Maybe I jumped the gun thinking they came in with the chips and it was that they spread to the chips from the house- not visa-versa. LOL. I still have one pile of chips. I got to rethink this! And do a search to read about termites. I should of gotten a computer 10 yrs ago, not a year ago. LOL.
On the subject of paper I save the fri. tv line ups. and also use paper I print on from the puter. Hmmm. Not sure about that ink?! I never do envelopes with glue or anything that is like that. (like someone said above, Theresa?) No shiney paper. Anyhow I always shred other wise it breaks down slower than molasses. LOL. As far as making good mulch, it can work as good as leaves, almost!
Good idea on the sawdust Tommy!
Emily... LOL I got that pain here, too. A chipper for sure! I tried starting a walk with fir cones and such. LOL. Nightmare for barefeet!! LOL! And also was basically just not great! Cedar might work better though, it's kind of cool?? We have huge fir trees, huge maples, red alders, cherry, and a bunch of other stuff. Cedar & sequoia (sp??), too, but their all tiny. Up to now we have always burned, which is ok here. But what a valuable resourse I have been throwing away. I got to rethink all of this. Again esp. the part about buying a chipper/shredder!
I love the fact I have so much input on gardening from all of you. (I needed that!) I love this site!!!!!
PS LOL forgot to say- my favorite vroom thing is my leaf sucker/shreader/blower. Got it at walmart for not too much. It does great with leaves. It wouldn't do heavy stalks tho'. But for leaves it's amazing!
Screaming Eagle
Posted: May-27-2004 at 4:44pm
Sydnie wrote:
questions: So if you do hot mulch and use grass it doesn't matter if you have grass seed nor dandelion seeds because it kills them by breaking down fast? I didn't think I could use it in my cold mulch bin. Because of all the weed and grass seed. Does it matter if you use it in your cold frames if you keep turning them? I was always nervous about using grass and ending up with grass and dandelions in my beds- get enough of that to begin with! LOL.
Nothing is guarenteed, I would be careful about weed seeds. I said it's more likely to kill them, not definately! All my pots that I amended with my compost have tomatoe and pumpkin volunteers! (can you tell what I put in my compost last fall?) Luckily they aren't big pests and are easy to remove. Oooeee! Dandelions would be horrid!
Sydnie wrote:
The blender idea made me think about my winter mulch buckets. In the winter I keep buckets with super dooper lids that seal well to hold kitchen scraps in. Sealed these break down really fast. (and get stinky) I usually put them out on the porch 'til theres a break in the weather and then pour, yes- turns to liquid, them into the mulch bin. What if you took and made a mini hot mulch pile inside 3/4 full. Rolled it once in a while. Would that work? Do they need to have to have air? I thought if that would work it would be great for someone with a sm. yard? I'm going to try that just for winter! Buckets of dirt already for spring might be lovely! Rather than buckets of ewwwww to hold my nose and pour out. Anyone ever tried any thing like this?? LOL.
I have no idea! Do some experiments and let us know!
Sydnie wrote:
Since no one else seems to have had bad experiences with termites, I'm thinking it probably was that we had cruddy, cruddy siding to begin with!!! Look out woody woodpeckers! This siding is cement of somesort. OW! LOL. At least we have zero, zilch no termites this year. No where. Maybe I jumped the gun thinking they came in with the chips and it was that they spread to the chips from the house- not visa-versa. LOL. I still have one pile of chips. I got to rethink this! And do a search to read about termites. I should of gotten a computer 10 yrs ago, not a year ago. LOL.
I used free wood chips from a company to create new beds over grass and layered newspaper (couldn't afford compost at the time). I do get some interesting fungus from time to time but seems pretty harmless so far. This year I've been moving what's left on the beds and replacing with compost, using it over again in paths, etc. and I've had no problems.
tommyb
Posted: May-27-2004 at 8:33pm
In the interest of delicate conversation, I will avoid most of the coarse possibilities inherent in non-aerobic, or anerobic, decompostion. If my spelling is even close.
Decomposition with no air present is called digestion, in a cow, or a person, or other places, like a sealed five gallon bucket. Weed seeds pass through, as in birds or horses. A major wee odor is a bio-product, as in methane, as in,well,er,... proud of my restraint, I move on...
One of the real "WOW!" aspects of my little chipper/shredder is what it does to my pine/fir cone/needle pile: the needles mostly pass through but the cones (small sizes) are demolished. Makes great mulch!And the pile gets much smaller.
I would be interested in a method to sift or sort the cones to get a clean "cone" mulch. Any methods other than pick and sort??
Tom
Screaming Eagle
Posted: May-28-2004 at 9:25am
Tommyb, kids are great cone picker-uppers! Especially if you pay them. If you don't have any of your own, do you have any neighbor kids? Neices or nephews?
You make me really want a chipper/shredder. I don't have nearly the "forest" Emily does but I have my share and I agree, it makes great mulch or path material.
Theresa
Sydnie
Posted: May-28-2004 at 3:08pm
LOL Theresa. I always have potatoes even when I think they are all mulched to dirt. LOL. Last fall I had more vegi's started in the 'almost done mulch bin' > than I had in my 'real garden'!! LOL I have grown potatoes there before- that's awesome. No bugs and sweet, easy digging!
Gardening for the Homebrewer: Grow and Process Plants for Making Beer, Wine, Gruit, Cider, Perry, and More
By co-authors Debbie Teashon (Rainy Side Gardeners) and Wendy Tweton