Good Arborist/Looming Douglas Fir
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ranjanir
Location: Washington, Puget Sound Corridor
Posted: Aug-24-2004 at 10:05am
We have an enormous Doug fir in our home (on a slope, within about 20 feet of our house).
A few years back, when we had to cut down 7-8 topped trees in our yard, we had an "arborist" take a look at this one, prune out the branches and leave it as is. This was when we were doing a complete redo of our backyard. We also noticed that somebody had tried to sabotage this tree (checked with the old owners of the home as well). Essentially, there is a cut about 4 feet from the base of the tree - somebody tried to kill it about 20 years back.
Question: My neighbor wants to take this tree down. Doug firs are supposed to have shallow roots. A single branch of this behemoth trashed their car a few years before we moved into this home. It is 20 feet from our home (in our backyard) and a windstorm would not bode well for our family.
What do people do when there is a giant doug fir looming next to the house. The tree lumber company's resident "arborist" pronounced our tree healthy - but I figure he has no clue. Do any of you have a good arborist recommendation.
What would you do? My protective instinct wants me to take it down - but I do love the tree.
Thanks
R
Lisa A
Location: Oregon, Greater Portland Metro
Posted: Aug-24-2004 at 11:07am
Ouch, tough spot! Perhaps this site, Pacific Northwest Chapter of the International Society of Arboriculture, which I found through Plant Amnesty, will be of some help. Check the links on the bottom left side of the page for some guidance regarding working with an arborist. Hopefully someone else with have a personal recommendation as well. Good luck.
matthew
Location: Outside the Maritime Pacific Northwest
Posted: Aug-24-2004 at 2:33pm
If an arborist said it was healthy, have said arborist give you said proclamation in writing. Healthy trees will ditch limbs. It's just the way it goes. As far as the root system of Pseudotsuga menziesii goes, it depends on the soil it lives in. It is potentially a very deep rooting tree. You can usually count on a root biomass of 40 to 50 percent at around 20-30 years but it decreases quite a bit with age. If the tree is more than 100 years old, and you can even stomach the idea of it (I would rather it fell on my house), it might be economically wise to cut it down.
As far as the sabotage goes, I used to be on a girdling crew in a state park here in california where we girdled Pseudotsuga menziesii to halt climax succession in a part of the park reserved for mostly oak woodland. Unless that cut goes all the way around the trunk and all the way into solid wood, I wouldn't fret over it too much.
In closing, please be advised that I am in no way shape or form an arborist, registered professional forester, or tree expert of any kind. I would recommend again, that you get an arborist to give you something in writing, or cut it down (ehhhh. yuck..). I worked on a farm in Napa where the owner had a 450 year old Quercus agrifolia that was only 15' from the house and was completely hollow, but healthy. The limbs were the size of most fully grown trees in the area. And no matter how much damage that thing did, the owners just couldn't bring themselves to do it. Remember. It was probably there before you OR your neighbors.
Wanda
Location: Puget Sound corridor
Posted: Aug-24-2004 at 2:50pm
I second the idea of getting something in writing. Believe it or not, if you have a tree that needs "maintained" and you don't do it and it falls, your homeowners insurance may not cover the damage. Homeowners insurance covers healthy trees that fall (Acts of God). Your policy may vary but in general they are not in business of funding repairs when no one tried to prevent the problem. If your neighbor decides to contact his insurance company (in writing) that this tree is a perceived problem, you could be held totally financially responsible if it falls. If you love the tree, get an arborist to put it in writing that it's healthy and do it again every 5 years or so. Good luck - I feel your pain. I love these trees.
-Wanda
cjmiller
Location: Oregon, Willamette Valley
Posted: Aug-24-2004 at 4:51pm
I hope you let us know the outcome. We, too, have a 70 foot doug fir that close to our house, When we moved here 30 years ago, you could look over the top of it and there was a flowering cherry between it and the house. The cherry went--wasnt getting enough sun and was subject to a number of ugly diseases, plus aphids. Our daughter, and insurance agent, wants us to get rid of it-- but we love it. It is a wonderful source of shade from afternoon sun, and yes, it does drop a limb from time to time, but it is extremely healthy and I know for a fact that it is well rooted--had our septic tank and part of the drain field underneath it! Its one of those situation that in your heart of hearts you just hope it outlasts you, so you dont have to make a crumby decision about cutting it down.
Carol
Lisa A
Location: Oregon, Greater Portland Metro
Posted: Aug-24-2004 at 6:26pm
Matthew makes a good point. Doug roots can grow deeply, depending on the soil. I recall learning a few years ago that when you visit the Oregon Caves you can look up and see living Doug Fir tree roots above your head, 200' below the soil surface!
Personally, I hate the generalization that Dougs are shallow rooted and likely to be hazard. They are other trees more prone to falling in wind or ice storms (Leyland cypress, anyone?). They are more likely to fall when the tree is diseased or when a stand of Dougs has been thinned, disrupting the root mass and weakening those left behind. During the '89 winter wind storm, lots of Dougs fell (among other trees, too) in a fairly new housing development nearby because the trees at the outer edge - the ones that were used to being the windbreak - were removed, leaving behind ones that weren't yet able to take over the job. Dougs will drop branches, which can be large, during a storm and that alone is a hazard but don't assume that your tree is shallow rooted and likely to come down. My neighbors have a magnificent old Doug about 15' from their house - it was the reason they chose that lot. They periodically have an arborist come check their tree and remove any "widow maker" limbs but it's likely the tree will be there long after they are gone.
Matthew and Wanda offer excellent suggestions and advice.
mdvaden
Location: Oregon, Western
Posted: Aug-26-2004 at 3:01pm
The PNW chapter site has paid-inclusion and the list is very small. It's not the local arborists. It's the local ones that paid money to get listed there, as stated in that site.
Try the main ISA site. Go to INTERNATIONAL SOCIETY OF ARBORICULTURE - I. S. A.
Click the first page to enter.
Go to the menu to locate an arborist.
Enter your zip code, or the code of a nearby area. This will open the door to 10 times the potential certified arborists to choose from in your local area.
Also, a Douglas fir may have shallow roots, or it may have deep roots. It depends on how much, or how little it was irrigated.
Many of the unattended Doug fir in fields in the 60s did not go over in the "big one" because they were anchored deeply. They were not irrigated.
You are right - the limbs can come crashing down in the right weather.
Just edited the message - to include that there is nothing wrong the PNW ISA site - it's just not as broad as the other resource. I tested the main ISA link after my post, and my zip code brought up about 30 arborists in about 15 mile radius of my location, whereas the PNW chapter link listed only 16 arborists - but that was 16 for the entire state of Oregon, whereas the main site gave me double that number for a small part of Oregon.
M.D. Vaden
JeanneK
Location: Oregon, Greater Portland Metro
Posted: Aug-27-2004 at 10:00am
Thanks for the link, MD. Nice service.
Ranjanir, I vote you keep the tree if it is healthy, also! I love Doug firs! My neighbors have a few large trees that worry me a bit as they are within falling distance of the right corner of my house. But they seem to be deeply root and have been there a long time. If they were mine, I would leave them and love having them.
Jeanne
ranjanir
Location: Washington, Puget Sound Corridor
Posted: Aug-27-2004 at 1:53pm
Thanks for the links.
We will be calling an arborist next week.
Personally, though I love trees I see why people would rather err on the side of caution. Home damage is not what I am worried about (least of it actually).
We had to take many topped trees down and it taught me a lesson when I re-did my garden. I am taking the fully grown tree height into account before I plant any new trees.
Thanks,
Ranjani
mdvaden
Location: Oregon, Western
Posted: Aug-27-2004 at 5:08pm
I grew up with trees like that, and have experience with them over the years.
I would prefer to avoid a house with one hovering over, because my tendency would be to keep the the tree. Those drop a lot of needles, and that is not bad with a composition roof and a blower on hand. But with a shake roof, it is a tough combo.
If the tree is healthy, and well pruned by a certified arborist, I'd be totally fine with living near one. With just a few exceptions:
1. A care does not do well parked under, so the parking would need to be a garage or to the side.
2. The limbs in a wind storm or ice storm can weigh from 100 to 600 pounds and can impale right though the roof. So I would not occupy a second floor during a storm. In a single story, I would have my family stay in a motel or friend's for the night.
Other than that, they can last for centuries and centuries.
M.D. Vaden
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