Preparing Beds + Cover Crops
DebbieTT
Sunset zone 5, USDA zone 8
Location: Washington, Kitsap Peninsula
Posted: Nov-06-2003 at 12:19pm
I am layering compost and shredded leaves and coffee grounds in some new beds for next year. I am also bringing in some top soil to raise the beds up about 12 inches. Some areas I am doing this right over grass and only putting newspaper around the edges and layering everything over the top. This one area has a natural depression so I am filling in a lot.
I was curious as what others are doing for next year's crop?
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GardenNut
Location: Western Washington
Posted: Nov-06-2003 at 10:01pm
I chopped in what few leaves I had and planted mammoth red clover. It sprouted, but has been in a holding pattern with all the cold weather.
The coyote that lives in the woods behind us has been digging in the dirt where a mole has made its run. While I like the pest-control, I don't care for my garden being dug up.
I covered the winter greens with reemay. It hit 19 degrees here last night. I haven't had the guts to see if the lettuce is all mush.
We're off to warmer climes for a while (I had originally typed "sunnier", but given the beautiful days lately, that'd be incorrect). I'll check back in a couple of weeks
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Chris Sunset 4 USDA 8a
If you have a garden and a library, you have everything you need.
- Cicero
DebbieTT
Sunset zone 5, USDA zone 8
Location: Washington, Kitsap Peninsula
Posted: Nov-07-2003 at 12:18am
The coyotes can do some damage, but I do like to hear them when they are in the neighborhood yipping away. It is such a cool wild sound.
When you get back please keep us posted on the progress of your clover. I have not planted cover crops and always felt intimidated by them. Maybe a blow by blow play of how it grows, when its planted and how you get rid of it in spring would help.
Have fun in warmer climes!
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Adding a fountain or two can bring the heartbeat of your garden to life with sound. -David Lewis
Janet B
Location: United States
Posted: Nov-15-2003 at 12:52pm
I also am using leaves and compost and coffee grounds (I got that hint from a prior post from Debbie, thanks!) to create a couple of new beds. First put down newspapers, then the rest. On my existing beds, I am doing the same (without newspapers), just not as deep.
I used cover crops for a couple years, by planting in the fall and turning them over in the spring. Then I found out that this digging in the beds can ruin the soil structure. I was told its better to cut off the cover crop, and let the roots rot. I tried this last year, but the cover crop ( a mixture) kept growing. I had to pull it up, and smother with newspapers and compost. What a pain. I would love to find an easier method to use cover crops - perhaps I am just using the wrong crop. So any advice would be great, thanks
I covered my lettuce and spinach with plastic (made a frame out of plastic pipe and covered with clear plastic). Our lowest temperature has been about 26, and they survived. This is the first time that I have tried it, so I was happy with the success. (I'm not sure that it would protect them down to 19 degrees, however!)
DebbieTT
Sunset zone 5, USDA zone 8
Location: Washington, Kitsap Peninsula
Posted: Nov-16-2003 at 1:37pm
I have not done cover crops myself although it is also something I am going to try, some day. I hope someone chimes in with an answer for you there.
Trav has some information on cover crops at West Side Gardener but not sure if it answers your specific questions or not. Welcome to s!
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Adding a fountain or two can bring the heartbeat of your garden to life with sound. -David Lewis
trav
Location: United States
Posted: Nov-22-2003 at 2:18pm
Digging them in shouldn't be a problem, unless you're using a mechanical tiller and the soil is too wet - that's what can destroy soil structure. Given our cool spring soils, waiting for roots to rot would take next to forever. If that's the way you want to do it, though, you should probably "cut them off" using a hula hoe. That'll get the plants below the growing point.
I usually cut off the tops, then chop what's left in with a regular hoe or work the bed over with a garden hoe. I try to do that well ahead of when I will need the bed (1-2 months) if it's early spring. Adding a nitrogen source like bloodmeal can speed up the process.
I am guessing your advice came from a permaculturalist - you have to be careful because that tends to be "one size fits all, from the equator to the arctic" advice. Sometimes generic ideas have to be modified for our climate.
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Travis
The Westside Gardener
New (well, sorta) - Updated vegetable garden timetable!
DebbieTT
Sunset zone 5, USDA zone 8
Location: Washington, Kitsap Peninsula
Posted: Nov-23-2003 at 7:26pm
Hey Trav! Thanks for the tips. It is definately a concern for us with our wet springs. Our new word of the week is plowpan and something we want to avoid.
If cover crops tie up precious soil so late for us is there are other alternatives so our soil is available earlier for the early season crops. Just how do you get around this? Or perhaps I should ask for a gardener that doesn't have a large area for gardening is there a way around this without tieing up precious soil space for too long?
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Adding a fountain or two can bring the heartbeat of your garden to life with sound. -David Lewis
GardenNut
Joined: Sep-23-2003
Location: Western Washington
Posted: Nov-24-2003 at 11:51am
Deb,
I just grow my cover crops as long as possible. Then, when I NEED the space, I just yank up the plants by hand, compost them, and - voila! Instant planting space. I only have about 300 square feet of veggie beds total, and half of it is in winter crops anyway, so this isn't time-consuming.
I figure that having the plants there for the winter helps with any wind or water erosion. In the spring they help sop up some of the water, and pulling them out is like tilling "lite" (I don't have a tiller anyway). I'm letting the roots do the work of breaking up the soil down deep.
I won't reap the benefits of fixed nitrogen or biomass except in the compost heap. But there again, since I have a small area to deal with, it's easy to just dump compost on it.
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Chris Sunset 4 USDA 8a
If you have a garden and a library, you have everything you need.
- Cicero
DebbieTT
Sunset zone 5, USDA zone 8
Location: Washington, Kitsap Peninsula
Posted: Nov-24-2003 at 5:31pm
Chris, I like that - tilling "lite". Perhaps we should put that in the glossary of terms?
That sounds like a way to go for a small garden. Probably would be too much work in a large garden. You bring up some good points about the roots breaking up the soil. Even though you are pulling out a lot of the fixed nitrogen I am sure there is some fixed nitrogen left behind.
Just think of it as growing your own compost!
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Adding a fountain or two can bring the heartbeat of your garden to life with sound. -David Lewis
KellieD
Location: Oregon, Northern Coast
Posted: Nov-25-2003 at 8:58am
Anybody but me remember Ruth Stout? Her method made sense, even though we in the Northwest have to think about baby slugs.
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DebbieTT
Sunset zone 5, USDA zone 8
Location: Washington, Kitsap Peninsula
Posted: Nov-25-2003 at 4:31pm
Oh yes I remember her. I read her book back in the early 70s and tried her straw mulch idea. Then found slugs liked to lurk there. So I learned a lot about mulching from her and I am always mulching, just use different types of mulches now.
When I lived in Hawaii I tried mulching but the mulch would dissappear within days of laying it down. So did compost. It was magical.
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Adding a fountain or two can bring the heartbeat of your garden to life with sound. -David Lewis
trav
Location: United States
Posted: Nov-25-2003 at 7:46pm
DebbieTT wrote:
"When I lived in Hawaii I tried mulching but the mulch would dissappear within days of laying it down. So did compost. It was magical."
Boy I'd love to have those soil temperatures... at least in the melon beds. ;-)
I don't use cover crops on beds that I want to plant early (although I have had success, as was mentioned, with just pulling up ryegrass or digging it out). Instead I just lay down a good bit of compost, some lime, and maybe some leaves in fall. Breaks down pretty well by early February usually, as long as I don't go nuts on the leaves.
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Travis
The Westside Gardener
New (well, sorta) - Updated vegetable garden timetable!
trav
Location: United States
Posted: Nov-25-2003 at 7:48pm
KellieD wrote:
"Anybody but me remember Ruth Stout? Her method made sense, even though we in the Northwest have to think about baby slugs."
Very true. You've also got to think about spring soil warmup.
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Travis
The Westside Gardener
New (well, sorta) - Updated vegetable garden timetable!
KellieD
Location: Oregon, Northern Coast
Posted: Nov-28-2003 at 9:21am
So, how about a modified Ruth Stout? Apply a thick mulch in May/June to get through the heat of the summer and a light mulch, IF necessary, to reduce wintertime erosion?
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Once a seed, now a tree.
trav
Location: United States
Posted: Nov-28-2003 at 10:54pm
I guess it depends on your biases and your local climate. I think mulch can work in summer around veggies that aren't prone to slug damage (such as corn). I don't personally like to give slugs habitat during the summer - it's nice to have a few months when they're not around. Plus I don't think I've ever seen a time when my soil was "too warm". :-)
The argument is stronger for winter, though, as long as you're careful about ventilation (if you're using it around growing plants). I like to underplant large stuff like cabbage and Brussels sprouts with rye and vetch. Lettuce I grow under cover, so erosion isn't an issue - plus it tends to be popular with slugs and prone to diseases that like poor ventilation. But my garden is large enough that if a bed isn't mulched / cover-cropped / amended one year, it will be the next two or three years (because of rotation).
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Travis
The Westside Gardener
New (well, sorta) - Updated vegetable garden timetable!
DebbieTT
Sunset zone 5, USDA zone 8
Location: Washington, Kitsap Peninsula
Posted: Jan-24-2004 at 2:58pm
This thread I reread as it has some great tips. Also reminded me to ask Garden Nut - Chris how it was going as you said you would give us some reports too.
I also found this Cover Crops and Green Manure for Northwest Nurseries.
Cultivated legumes typically have deep taproots. Deeper root penetration and channel development in soil horizons improve drainage, decrease the need for frequent irrigation, and allow plants to reclaim nutrients from lower soil levels.
or Decomposition rate of leguminous green manure crops is greater than that of grass species, particularly for the herba - ceous legumes, because of a more favorable carbon to nitrogen (C:N) ratio. However, this rapid decomposition rate could be a disadvantage if the objective were to increase soil organic matter over a long period.
It is in PDF form and is aimed at the Northwest nursery but I think the information is excellant for the home gardener that is trying to decide which way to go. The table on page 3 shows the cover crops and when best to plant them and some good remarks in the remarks column. The advantages and disadvantages are useful too.
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Adding a fountain or two can bring the heartbeat of your garden to life with sound. -David Lewis
GardenNut
Joined: Sep-23-2003
Location: Western Washington
Posted: Jan-24-2004 at 3:33pm
This was the first year that I have tried clover and I have found out that the bunnies, mice, and deer really like it. There are some plants left over, so I'll see how it goes. It's really too early to tell anyway. Right now it's all buried under snow .
Last year I tried favas, and so far I think I like them better than the clover - sturdier plants and the animals didn't care for them quite so much.
I'm going to stay away from the grasses/grains for now. If anyone out there really likes them, I might give them a try this fall.
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Chris Sunset 4 USDA 8a
If you have a garden and a library, you have everything you need.
- Cicero
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