How Much Fertilizer Do You Use
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tommyb
Location: Oregon, Willamette Valley
Posted: Mar-10-2005 at 2:07pm
So I got the ingredients, and the recipe is straight forward---with the "no clues on how much to use" for ornamentals label.
Anyone using this stuff? And how much? One cup per foot of height of plant? One cup per three feet of spread of plant?
A pinch under each ear and a half cup on the chest?? (just a test to see if anyone reads this far...) (oh, wait, that's manure)
And what results have you had?
I'm using up the "nonorganic" supplies, being frugal, and I came across a coffee can with a couple cups of 16-16-16 in the bottom. As I'm planning to ChemiKill treat the strip of weeds between the sidewalk and the street anyway, I thought I'd see what the 16-16-16 would do in a straight dump the can application. About a week later and the spot is bright yellow. Good stuff!!
To start the discussion about the O.F. application, how about one cup per foot of plant height, or width for sprawlers, scattered around the plant and scratched into the soil.
No scientific validation is required by me, just how's it working for you. Scientific validation is of course welcome as long as it's translated for old white haired folks.
Tom
Red Hare
Location: Oregon coast
Posted: Mar-10-2005 at 2:36pm
You use a pinch of manure behind your ears, and half a cup on your chest? You sure would make an interesting neighbor! :-)
What recipe are you referring to? What's in it, what are the proportions, what plants do you plan to fertilize with it?
Generally speaking, I probably tend to underfertilize. You can always add more in a couple weeks or a month.
tommyb
Location: Oregon, Willamette Valley
Posted: Mar-10-2005 at 6:27pm
I speak, repectfully, of the Complete Organic Fertilizer of the Rainy Side Gardeners Website as portrayed at RSG C.O.F.
I'm going to spread it madly about on Hostas, Lilacs, Clematisii, Viburnums, Currents, Day Lilies, Crocosmia, Hops, Hebes, Barberries, Kinickinikinik (your choice of knics), Euphorbias, Euonymusii, Veronica, Azeleas, Rhodies (these two get some chemical rhody food too), Phloxii, Asters, Ceanothus, Heathers, Sumac, Mimosa, Smoke Trees, and some others who I can't recall as wallet shock sets in (most of these have been imported within the last three years).
Well, maybe not madly about, but that's why I'm seeking sage advice from the Preeminent Regional Gardening Website on the World Wide Web (you can send the quarter to me later, Deb). I'm hoping that the COF is general enough to feed'em all. I am going to add a pinch of fish pellets to the mix (organic 7-7-2), I like watching the cat's reaction.
I actually only use the manure for formal occasions, mostly I stick with compost for everyday wear.
Tom
JeanneK
Location: Oregon, Greater Portland Metro Posts: 2190 Posted: Mar-11-2005 at 10:24am
LOL, Tommy, you crack me up! Yes, oh wise ones of the COF, I am curious too. How much and when?
Jeanne
Lisa A
Location: Oregon, Greater Portland Metro
Posted: Mar-11-2005 at 10:54am
lol. you do realize that, to a gardener's nose, you would smell good, tom. yup, we are an interesting breed.
gary
Location: Washington, Puget Sound Corridor
Posted: Mar-11-2005 at 11:00am
First, COF without the lime would be a rhody/blueberry etc. fert. as the cottonseed meal is acidic.
Again I will recall info from that $9 book, Weedless Gardening by Lee Reich. In his area of the country Soybean meal is more common and his "one size fits all". He recommends 3 pounds per 100 sq ft spread once a year before laying down mulch.
He goes on the say that, "Generally, our aim is to apply 0.2 pound of actual nitrogen per 100 sq ft, whether it comes from 2 pounds of 10-10-10, 4 pounds of 5-10-10, or 3 pounds of soybean or cottonseed meal."
Solomon's background fert level, for vegetables, is 1 gal of COF per 100 sq ft. I do not have any dry now to check the weights but I think that this is higher than Reich because his summer warmer climate lets him use 1" of compost as his mulch and he works cover crops hard to maintain his soil fertility.
Reich's flower beds don't get that much continuous build up so I think that his ratio which is 2 lbs/ 1,000 sq ft is a place to start. (Native plants are probably exempt except when establishing them.)
Gary
DebbieTT
Location: Washington, Kitsap Peninsula
Posted: Mar-11-2005 at 12:21pm
Ok, now do not use these words as the bible, ya hear? Not that you would, but I feel buttered up enough to say that this moment. I will tell you what I do in my garden. I do not purposely feed my rhodos or trees. Although some are fertilized because I am feeding other plants nearby. I never feed my kinickers or native plants, the former spread fast enough and I do not want to encourage them to gallop. Most of my plants, I fertilize on the lean side although Gary's post with Lee’s recommendations are a good place to start. It is much more than I use in my garden on my plants. However, I am not into having the largest flowers etc. I like giving a boost in spring to many of my plants, and only on an individual basis do I continue fertilizing. Some plants require a lot of food into July on a monthly basis, such as the clematis. The plants I attend to most often with fertilizers are the non-woody plants.
Too much growth encourages more aphids having a field day or I should say more pest problems. Except for vegetable gardening, I feel that fertilizer recommendations are way over the top. Of course, you sell more fertilizer that way! So lean and mean is my motto. Fortunately if you over do it with organic fertilizer you will not damage your plants as you would with a chem fertilizer (burn, baby burn); but the excess can end up in our streams, lakes and waterways. which is NOT good.
I am of the feed the soil camp, so when I build the soil up that in turn feeds the plants. Although this is not for all plants, it certainly works with a good majority of them.
I will probably never be able to win a prize at the county fair for the largest flower, but I do not need them to pump iron and take steroids for me to enjoy them. I like the leaner and meaner look.
In addition, it is hard for me to give exact amounts, as I am the kind of cook that does a pinch of this, a palm of that. Over the years, I know my plant’s requirements and can throw a palmful around here and there, scratch it in and call it good. I can tell you that above is excessively much in my view, I recommend cutting it at least in half if not more. In addition, I would omit shrubs and trees to fertilize, exceptions would be roses and the like. Take with a grain of salt, as my recommendations are not mainstream. As you get to know your plants, you will find that you probably can get away with a lot less fertilizer, especially if you are feeding the soil with humus. Definitely more is not necessarily better!
tommyb
Location: Oregon, Willamette Valley
Posted: Mar-11-2005 at 3:15pm
Good starting points, all. Except for Deb. My Momma always taught us that the Queen is never wrong, so "Listen Up!". And she had a mean right cross, ask my brother (I could duck better than him).
Thanks to Gary for the Rhody\acidic variation to COF!!
Selling the stuff would make dosages higher, maybe? In my never ending search for truth, justice and cheap chocolate, oh, sorry, organic fertilizing methods, I wandered deep into the Organic Gardening Forum and found the Espoma Company. On this page, Holly Tone, the product application is spelled out. (They have a variety of organic mixes, makes interesting reading.) And, as expected, Deb is right, the amount is roughly double what Deb would recommend---if that's one-half of what Gary's references suggest. Hmmmmmm. And, after adjustment for old eyes, the ingredients look close. Hmmmmm.
For the newbies that might be reading over our collective shoulders, the amounts I'm hearing\reading would be:
for established plants---from nothing (with good humus\mulch provided) to 2 cups per 1000 square feet. This is about two pounds per 1000 square feet,right?
for new plants\plantings---up to 16 cups (is one gallon, right? which could weigh 16 pounds!!) per 100 square feet for veggies, or as little as 2 cups per 1000 square feet.
Am I missing something (surprise, surprise), or are these numbers really wide apart?? I'll probably follow Deb's lead---going with my intuition as usual--- a little of this, a little of that, starting from the COF formula (although Travis uses more lime than RSG's mix), and finding what "feels" right for application, but either I'm reading sideways again, or there ain't no consensus showing up.
More opinions please. Especially from Lisa, your spelling is great this week!! Your writing makes me think you're talking after leaving the dentist's office (I spotted you on another forum!). Just kidding!!
Tom
Screaming Eagle
Location: Puget Sound corridor
Posted: Mar-11-2005 at 3:20pm
Ditto what she said. I'll just add that I add a half to a full cup (depending on the size of the plant) in the planting hole when I first plant something to get it off to a good start. I also add it to pots since the plants in them are less able to go out and get everything they need (plus I tend to like them a little showier.)
gary
Location: Washington, Puget Sound Corridor
Posted: Mar-11-2005 at 6:28pm
When my 37 year boss tells me to buy pie ingredients at the Oly Farmers' Market, she tells me, ”Pint's a pound the world around.” In reality this only works with liquid measure. For example, ¼ cup of Morton table salt equals the salt content of ½ cup of Diamond Kosher salt and 1/3 cup of Morton Kosher salt. All three have the same Na/Cl weight.
The same applies to fert’s well beyond the comparisons of one cup of 46-0-0 urea or 3-0-0 alfalfa meal. We need to measure ferts by the pound and not volume as that is the basis for the N-P-K ratios.
Ciscoe Morris is a strong believer in alfalfa meal for roses (every 6 weeks) but he also recommends something like 5-10-10 this time of year because “normal” soil temps aren’t high enough to break down organic ferts. Check out his website (ciscoe.com) for his rec's on seasonal rose fertilization.
Beyond that, if it don’t grow feed it! Otherwise don't! Be cautious about what needs to grow, flowers, leaves, fruit, etc, and feed accordingly.
Gary
Lisa A
Location: Oregon, Greater Portland Metro
Posted: Mar-12-2005 at 10:59am
Originally posted by tommyb
More opinions please. Especially from Lisa, your spelling is great this week!! Your writing makes me think you're talking after leaving the dentist's office (I spotted you on another forum!). Just kidding!!
lol, tom. what imagery.
sorry to disappont but i've nothing to add to the excellent info you've already gotten [missplellings left just to make you gappy.]
so, was i talking about hellebores or climate changesa on the other forum?
tommyb
Location: Oregon, Willamette Valley
Posted: Mar-12-2005 at 1:33pm
'Twas climate change, and seems like something else a quick search didn't turn up, ful of stff lft ot nd grblled.
I'm glad your digit is better!
Maybe the "shadow of the gardener" is the best fertilizer, I've heard that is the best weeder.
Tom
Gardening for the Homebrewer: Grow and Process Plants for Making Beer, Wine, Gruit, Cider, Perry, and More
By co-authors Debbie Teashon (Rainy Side Gardeners) and Wendy Tweton